Hecklerspray doesn't dish out hype all that often. Yet every pattern has a deviation. There are always exceptions, folks.
Bear that point in mind as we introduce you to Stewart Lee – writer, comedian and co-mastermind behind the infamous Jerry Springer: The Opera.
Especially when we tell you that the man is the best comedian we have heard or seen since Bill Hicks.
hecklerspray caught up with Mr. Lee to ask him a couple of questions. He very nicely agreed to answer them. And here are the results…
Like many of our readers, hecklerspray grew up listening to Fist and Fun/the Radio 1 shows and watching This Morning With Richard Not Judy. How would you say your comedy/writing has developed since then?
Well, I write less, but it's better. It's much less about popular culture and more about ideas. It's not sarcastic and snipey, like a teenager or a 20-something, but more genuinely despairing and depressed. But a cynic is only a frustrated romantic. I'm not that bothered about the crapness of boybands now, more upset about global warming and our own imminent deaths. I have less ideas but they all last longer.
You were involved with the radio series On The Hour and yet not (directly) with the TV transition to The Day Today, a show which is generally seen as something of a comedy landmark. Do you feel that yourself and Richard Herring have been given the credit that you deserve for your influence?
Yes, by comedy fans and certainly by the current generation of 20-something comics, but not by TV commissioners etc. I often go to meetings where I am told to imitate things I essentially co-created.
How did the reported animosity between yourselves and fellow comedy writer Patrick Marber develop during this time?
It was a sort of joke really. When we got sacked from OTH for wanting a cut of things we'd created, Patrick, who had only recently started writing for it, was the only actor in the show not to be sympathetic, and lo and behold a year later he became the co-creator of Alan Partridge, which had pre-existed his input, and was able to build a theatre career on this misconception.
This Morning With Richard Not Judy was often shunted around the schedules with little chance to develop a stable audience. Do you think it could have lasted longer if handled properly by the BBC?
Obviously yes. Jane Root obviously wanted to kill it and so scheduled it badly to avoid it getting a following. The new regime just did the same things to Sean Lock's sitcom, which was great, and to a pilot by The Right Size which wasn't even listed as being broadcast. Twats.
Do you think that you will work with Richard Herring again? What are your thoughts on his solo outings Christ On A Bike or Talking Cock?
I liked the thoroughness of Talking Cock. For me, Rich's best work was the play Punk's Not Dead, which if our management had any fucking idea about theatre could have been a huge hit. I've only seen him do stand-up once, as he only started recently, but it was good. I am sure we will work again at some point if we survive.
You also wrote a novel The Perfect Fool. Did you have any pressure from publishers etc. to produce a typical 'stand-up comedian' novel (e.g. the sort of Nick-Hornby-lite stuff that David Baddiel used to peddle)? Did people react with surprise when they discovered that it didn't fit into such a bracket?
The publishers knew what they were getting and commissioned it on the strength of a 30,000 word extract. I think reviewers were confused. I tended to get reviewed by non-lit types who just didn't get it and expected a comic's novel to be dumber. Anyone who actually knew my stand-up, I think, wouldn't have been surprised though. If you're writing a novel, write a novel.
The involvement with Jerry Springer: The Opera seemed something of a unique move for a stand-up comedian/writer like yourself. How did this come about?
Richard Thomas the composer, who used to do funny music in TMWRNJ and Attention Scum etc, asked me.
Was the Springer idea initially difficult to produce/find an audience?
Yes. Then it wasn't. And now it is again.
Were you in any way expecting the level of controversy it created?
No.
The director Kevin Smith once mentioned – after offending numerous religious types – that the scariest letter he ever received was from someone suggesting that he and 'his Jew-buddies' should 'go and invest in bulletproof jackets'. Were you receiving comparable sorts of hatemail in the wake of Springer?
Not personally. The BBC execs got death threats. I just get stupid things saying I am going to hell.
Do you ever worry that Springer might become a burden with regard to future work (i.e. something that's discussed so much it overshadows other things)?
Yes. It already is. And the Christian Right means it hasn't paid out.
What future projects are you working on?
A play about William Blake and more stand-up.
What do you think of the current state of British TV/Radio comedy?
There's loads of talent and not much of it is getting through to BBC 2/3 and C4. New TV comedy I hate – Man Stroke Woman, Tittybangbang, Friday Night Project, Buzzcocks, etc etc. New TV comedy I like – The Office, The Thick Of It.
And what are your thoughts on the present stand-up scene? Who are your favourite comedians on the live circuit today?
New stand-ups I like – Josie Long, Russel Howard, Russel Brand. Again, lots of brilliant people, but none of them being used or booked intelligently. They'll have to create their own opportunities.
There's quite a disturbing trend in a lot of comedy for misogyny/racism/homophobia etc. being bandied about under the label of 'irony' (by performers like ex oil-salesman Jimmy Carr). Do you think this trend will pass? Or are we doomed to some sort of Bernard Manning/Jim Davidson revival?
The problem is you can't be ironic to a culture which no longer shares a liberal consensus. I miss political correctness.
As highlighted by your radio shows, you have an extensive knowledge and appreciation of music. What do you think of the present music scene? Any particular artists who interest you?
I listen to mainly old or dead people now – Fall, Robert Pollard/Guided By Voices, Billy Childish, Howe Gelb/Giant Sand, Sonny Rollins, Miles Davis, John Coltrane, Derek Bailey, all the Carthy/Waterson folkie family, Bob Dylan. You have to realise, I'm on my 3rd or 4th garage rock revival.
Bit of a clichéd question, but … ahem … who would you say are your major influences?
Ted Chippington, The Fall, William Blake, Giant Sand, Derek Bailey, Kevin MacAleer, John Coltrane, Johnny Vegas, Lenny Bruce, Greg Fleet, Mike Wilmot, Simon Munnery, Arthur Smith, Stan Lee.
And finally … who are the actors/musicians/politicians/public figures in general that you find the most reprehensible at the moment?
Blair, Bush, The Pope, Stephen Green of Christian Voice, The BNP, Dr Iqbal thingy of the Muslim Council, Nica Burns from the Perrier Awards. And Chris Martin.
Don't believe us about how good Stewart Lee is? Why not catch one of his shows?
Check out his website. Go to a gig. Support decent British comedy rather than buying Peter Kay DVDs.
Do it…
Read More:
[interview by C J Davies]
Dan says
He hates Buzzcocks? He was on it the other week though, hypocrite. He’ll be turning into Ben Elton soon.